Hillary's war vote -- the issue that won't die

  LOS ANGELES -- At first glance, it looked like one of those rare Kumbaya debates, with hardly a harsh word exchanged between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

   But then, late in the event, before an audience that included Stevie Wonder and Rob Reiner and America Ferrera of "Ugly Betty," the issue that was supposed to drag down Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign came back with a vengeance.

   Again Hillary Clinton was forced to defend her vote for the resolution that led to the Iraq War -- and five days before Super Tuesday, no less.

   Clinton repeated the argument that she's always made, that she made the best judgment she could have on the vote based on what she knew at the time. And again she refused to apologize for a vote the many Democrats regard as a mistake.

   And in response, Obama made the point he made before the race focused so heavily on the economy, as it has in recent weeks.

   "We need better judgment when we decide to send our young men and women into war," he said.

   So what do you think? Obama is still obviously holding Clinton's war vote against her. Are you?

-- Jerry Zremski

Comments

[The Sicilian]

Now that Hillary Clinton has crushed Barack Obama in Massachusetts, maybe the judgment question should be asked of Obama. Barack Obama embraced the Kennedy endorsement like a kid opening a Christmas present. Well the Massachusetts voters saw through all the Kennedy cynicism to ignore this convenient partnership.

The fact is, Ted Kennedy backstabbed the Clintons after Bill and Hillary both supported Kennedy in his home state when he was vulnerable to defeat in an election against then opponent Mitt Romney in 1994. The Clintons fully supported Kennedy and stood by his side during that tumultuous election. 2008 arrives and Kennedy snubs Hillary Clinton with his support for Obama.

That judgment call by Obama showed his character. Instead of declining the endorsement and campaigning stumps of Kennedy, he became an accomplice to Kennedy’s disrespect of the Clintons. So much for the big message of uniting all parties. Backstabbing politics is acceptable in the Obama camp contrary to his “inspiring” message. Pay attention to the facts voters, and not to the rhetoric of an inexperienced politician.

[Paulie D]

To Howard Goldman aka buffalovibrator.com .The 200,000 would not even cover the jobs lost in the area over the years.Buffalo went from 575,000 to 285,000 ? or so.Can you imagine 50 to 100,000 new good paying jobs in the area.Maybe some of the 100,000 higher education students would stay in the area.Maybe your children or grandchildren could find a good paying job and stay or move back !It would take a lot more than 200,000 jobs in WNY to become Atlanta with a metro of almost 5,000,000.How about Niagara Falls ,not what i would call a boom town .Hillary has been a fair N.Y.Sen.but not great .Lots of talk not as much action,plus when she was on the Wallmart board for years she cared little about unions and good paying jobs.

[michael]

I personally can't stand the women. I think she is a foney, lier, fraud, and BS artist. She is the perfect politician, a camelion. She blends into the poltical fabric and adapts to whatever the situation calls for. I firmly beleve she used NY to get to were she is, and I also believe if any qualified politician from NY should run for president, it should be Schummer. Having said all that, I think it is rediculous to criticize her for her vote to go to war. She based her decision on the inteligence at the time and the threat to the US after 911. The intelligence was wrong not her decision. At least she showed that she would fight and stand up for America's protection. Do you honestly think America that she voted for war, just to see us start a fight. I think not, she was trying to protect America.

[bobbycat]

The promise was 200,000 jobs to UPSTATE, not just the 8 counties of WNY.

Wow, I've never heard anybody worry about having too many jobs.That's like worrying that the sun might shine too much.

[Howard Goldman aka buffalobloviator.com]

Thank goodness she didn't deliver 200,000 new jobs to WNY. That is almost 20% of our entire metro population.

We only have 4.7 unemployment rate and that is considered full employment. Can you imagine if we had to suddenly import 200,000 new residents to WNY to fill those new jobs?

Our business community would suffer from a lack of available man-power.

On one hand we would have created at least a short term demand market, but on the other hand, we would be congested and nutso like Atlanta etc., ...the cities we chose not to move to.

I think she is correct in not dropping a bomb like 200,000 unfilled jobs on our economy and our enviable quality of life.

[Bob O. Bowie]

I have to give points to Obama for turning around Hillary's "Experience on Day One" mantra with his zinger at her, saying: "It is important to be right on Day One"

Obviously the majority of Congress was duped by the Bushies and their blatant lying while making the case for war. (As referenced in Doug Turner's 1/23 Politics Now blog about the Center for Public Integrity report)

But it is her continuing to defend her votes, her speeches, her positions that is digging her hole deeper Re: Iraq.

I agree also with John about the 200,000 new jobs for New York State. Why she isn't being pressed on that, I don't know.

She's been an opportunistic politician, saying and doing whatever it takes to be elected and re-elected. She's done NOTHING for New York or WNY in particular.

Camera-loving Chuck Schumer may be the junior Senator from NY, but at least he has SOME tangible things he can point to.

[bobbycat]

John makes a good point. Hillary's war vote was a mistake, yes, but it was useful to her. It reinforced her hawkish resume needed for her presidential campaign. Very few voters will remember her war votes, but every voter will remember her campaign promises to provide jobs. The jobs promise worked in New York (it got her elected) and it will work nationally.

Seventeen debates and not ONE question about Hillary's broken promise of 200,000 jobs. You can't tell me that the media is unaware of her promise. They're all HQ'ed in NYC. When Tim Russert won't ask Hillary about the jobs promise on Meet the Press you know the question is too hot to handle. We hear all this blather about what she will do or won't do as president - all these theoretical suppositions- yet no one in the media has the stones to ask her a very simple question: "What happened to jobs you promised, Senator Clinton?".

The media is usually hunting for a good story line but in Hillary's case, they all appear to be neutered and muzzled. Unlike most of these whack-job Hillary haters, I voted for her. But she broke a very important promise and New Yorkers deserve an explanation if not an apology.

[john]

Barton
I agree about the supremely political comment. My feeling is that the war vote was a well calculated (at the time) scheme in her lifetime ambition to rule the world. She knows you need to be stong to run against a Republican. She never considered that someone in her own party was going to challenge her.

[Barton Keyes]

Hillary believes in Real Politik in international relations. Negotiations with adversaries require the big stick of a strong military, and the belief by that adversary that this country is willing to use that stick if necessary.
She also believes in a strong, muscular presidency. This does not mean she is a Chaney-ite when it comes to executive power, but I don't see her as someone who would be comfortable with Congress interjecting itself into foreign affairs.
Given that, I suspect she had no fundamental objection to giving a president support in exercising its war powers. Her mis-judgement was either in believing that Bush would use it prudently or that it was politically imprudent for her to oppose the granting of that power. And to her discredit, I suspect it was the later point that compelled her to vote for the resolution. After all, Hillary is supremely political if she is anything.

[john]

Has anyone seen hillary rodham's new TV ad? She's now promissing to create millions of new jobs. She has been so successful in NY with the 200,000 new jobs, now she's going for millions.

What is wrong with NYer's that keep voting for her?