THN Yearbook: Sabres 11th in the East

Quite an exciting day to get the mail and get my copy of the annual yearbook from The Hockey News. I totally recommend it for anybody (full disclosure: I'm not on their payroll but our intrepid John Vogl is their Buffalo correspondent and does his usual outstanding job).

Be sure to check out their conference predictions on Page 64. They pick Detroit to win the Stanley Cup again. No biggie. But the game's premier publication has the Sabres 11th -- yes, 11th -- in the East. At this point in the summer, I'm still on the fence about the Sabres as a playoff team but I doubt they're going to get worse either.

Ryan Miller, Toni Lydman and Henrik Tallinder all have to be better than they were last year, don't they? Craig Rivet will help and so will small doses of Teppo Numminen. Roy-Vanek-Pominville strike me as three pretty darn good forwards. And the young players (think Sekera, Weber, Gerbe) show some promise.

Here's the mag's predictions. It's still August, nearly two months before the puck drops in HSBC Arena on Oct. 10, but what do you think about these?

---Mike Harrington

THN's East                 THN's West

1. Montreal                 1. Detroit

2. Pittsburgh              2. San Jose

3. Washington          3. Minnesota

4. Philadelphia          4. Dallas

5. Ottawa                     5. Anaheim

6. Rangers                  6. Edmonton

7. New Jersey             7. Chicago

8. Carolina                  8. Calgary

9. Tampa Bay             9. Nashville

10. Boston                 10. Phoenix

11. Buffalo                11. Vancouver

12. Florida                 12. Columbus

13. Atlanta                 13. Los Angeles

14. Toronto                14. Colorado

15. Islanders             15. St. Louis

Comments

[ChetZeshonski]

I also think 11th is silly, but the more I look at that list, the harder I have to work to convince myself. Which teams in the top 10 can Buffalo unseat? The East is very strong. Boston isn't that good, but they'd still have to leapfrog two teams from a group of Ottawa, the Rangers, New Jersey, Carolina, and Tampa Bay to make the playoffs. Tampa Bay and Carolina seem like the most likely targets to me, but it's still going to be a tough road for the home team.

[Heather B.]

Philly is too high, Ottawa is possibly too high depending on how they bounce back from the disaster that was last season. Nice to see THN isn't jumping on the Tampa bandwagon though. It's still a circus there, just different ringleaders.

I don't know, how can Buffalo not be a playoff team? They were close last year and they had a handful of players who really underachieved - and players like Miller and Tallinder will make a huge difference if they play better because of their roles on the team - and a couple who really only pulled it together in the second half (Vanek, Roy). I'm not about to pronounce them a Stanley Cup contender but a playoff team? They should be for sure.

[greg]

THN had predicted Montreal last year in 11th place. They finished 1st in the East. I enjoy reading THN, but they have been known to be wrong. This should give Excuses, Chad, Elma & the guys something to banter about. looking forward to it. It's off to golf course while the sun is still shining.

[Heather B.]

Chet, it's interesting that you say that because watching the playoffs I thought the EC was actually not that strong at all. Pittsburgh and Montreal are definite contenders but with the right match-up I thought just about anyone could've gotten through. I think it's tough to rank the EC but more because there are a lot of teams that could play well but could not play well too.

I might be wearing rose-colored glasses though. It wouldn't be the first time. But seriously, we're below Tampa? I might be offended by that one.

[Don H]

Ranking teams in the preseason is a favorite journalistic hobby. Picking them in the right order is as rare as winning the super lottery.

[Mark]

Ottawa in 5th? Werent they statistically in LAST place from Jan 1 to the end of the season? They crawled into the playoffs based only on their early season streak and then got pummeled in a 1st round sweep. Since then they havent improved their goalie situation, lost a few players, changed coaches again...

[ElmaGolf]

"This should give Excuses, Chad, Elma & the guys something to banter about. looking forward to it"

Greg - I'm going to leave this one in your capable hands. I think your statement on THN's accuracy last year says about enough.

I think we beat the prediction horse to death (and then killed it, and shot it one more time for good measure) on the Teppo board.

Passing on Golf today - heading to Toronto for Radiohead. Maybe I'll see Vogl there since he loves concerts so much (we crossed paths in Rochester at Foo Fighters).

[Chester]

Radiohead? Foo Fighters? Is it '90s day? I'll have to dig out my discman and re-read my copy of Infinite Jest.

[Tom]

The real crime is that they have the Bruins, who are patently better this season than when they finished #8 last year, finishing 10th this year!

The first three picks are cop-outs. In particular the Habs are overrated to an extreme... they have all sorts of weaknesses from goaltending to defense to lack of a top-end scorer. They will not win the conference.

Other overrated picks are the Rangers, Sens and Canes. How exactly did Carolina become a playoff team this offseason? This looks like it was written by someone whose only resource was last season's standings.

[ElmaGolf]

"Radiohead? Foo Fighters? Is it '90s day?"

Hey, that's my "modern" stuff - also saw "They Might Be Giants". I really wanted to see the Boston / Styx show last Saturday, but had a prior commitment.

[Darrell]

Contrary to what others are saying, these rankings finally give the Sens their due after others ranked them out of the playoffs.

Despite the collapse last year, the team still has the core of the team that made the finals two years ago and has consistently been one of the highest scoring squads in the league. They've also gotten rid of most of the agreed upon causes for the collapse (Emery, and other locker room problems. The coach that let bad habits creep in, etc.) and added solid experience in Jason Smith.

[Henry]

The rankings are about right. If i'm honest top 7 i feel are a lock and the others are a crap shoot. I do like tampa improving, i don't like boston or Carolina ahead of us, so i'm thinking 8-10 ish. this being Said, how sad is it? The East is weak and were struggling to get in? The off season was quiet really. I don't feel we improved at all yet are relying on a myth that Miller hits his prime and becomes Brodeur and everyone who underacheived, having a great season. Don't get me wrong, i do belive in the "hangover" thing, but this is just not a great team. Is this a "throw away year"? Last hooray for Connoly, Max, Kotalik and maybe spacek? If your a fan you can only hope (seriously) that the Sabres get a high draft pick, the youngsters turn out real good and after the dead wood is gone they are very agresive in free agency or trades. How sad to go from Presidents trophy to what we are now, it's managments doing and everyone seems ok with that. why?

[bvllets]

I don't agree with it either. That's why I read the Bleacher Report and called it a day. It reads much better.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/46592-nhl-eastern-conference-preview

Yeah. Sabres in 8th.

[Mac]

Why are people getting all bent out of shape over predictions? At best, it's just frackin' guesswork. Who cares? Drop the puck and let's see how these teams actually play on ice, not on paper. Btw, Carolina will NOT finish ahead of Buffalo.

Elma, Radiohead remain awesome but you lost all credibility with me when you mentioned Boston and Styx. Fossilized '70s excrement at its lowest. Mamma jamma, it's fright night!

[Buffalo Excuses]

Hmmmm....Pittsburgh in 2nd, Philly in 4th...weren't they supposed to collapse!?! Detroit winning it all??? I thought you COULDN'T buy a cup!?! I know, I know, its just a prediction.

While I think The Excuses are too low, it is interesting to say the least that an objective observer would have them so low.

Heather, I think at this time of year, all fans, in all sports, try to see their team with rose colored glasses. There is always a way to have optimism, if they do this, and this, and this, and this.....Hellooooo Stanley Cup! Woohooo!!!!....NEWMAN!

Objective observers say, uhhh, that aint gonna happen (afinigenov returning to form), and THAT certainly aint gonna happen (Connelly making it through season) , and there is no way in he!! that THAT is going to happen (signing someone at trade deadline). So, the objective observer giggles, shakes his head, mutters somthing about the best laid schemes and the audacity of hope...and WE WIND UP IN 11th!

The problem with our fans thinking is that there are always too many "if this's" to rely upon.

Elma, you're a CPA so you may relate. If you are putting a plan together and every division comes to you with their greatest aspiration; the nothing can go wrong, everything has to hit on all cylinders kind of plan, it looks like a GREAT plan....uhhhh, on paper. Sure, it gets you through the planning meetings as a hero, but inevitably something goes wrong at execution. And the standard deviation is HUGE. And...you miss plan...MISERABLY!!!

That's why I think this team is over rated by the fans and very average. Too many things have to go our way and nothing can go against us. Experience tells me that aint gonna happen.

But Chad and Elma, you did put thoughtful replies on the Teppo board and if I were younger and dumber I would probably rah, rah, rah my way to believing it. No insults intended here. I just don't see it.

If Golisano is the great businessman we all think he is, he should see it too. And that's what gets me. This year must be a year to take advantage of the good will of the incredible Sabres fans. They will squeeze a few more bucks out of us before investing more next year when all that salary rolls off.

But what is funny is that they will still spend 80% of what the contenders do, only there will be "new look" Excuses to peddle. So they will still be less than competitive.

You guys made a decent point that it may be inevitable in Buffalo, I just disagree. I think Golisano is pocketing more money than he should, because he can. If choosing betweeen a decent chance to win the cup and $9 million, he is going to take the $9 million. Unfortunately, a marginally playoff team is easier and safer to build. And it sells in Buffalo. That's one of the reasons why this team will never leave. ANd a reason why we will never win a cup, unless we get lucky. Sorry, never was much for counting on luck...

And if choosing between staying in Buffalo and $5 million more, Regeir and Ruff are gone. Management success is harder to see than players, so it takes longer to poach someone. Some team like Edmonton will woo these guys away. Regier before Ruff I think, but it will happen. I am surprised Ruff is still here. Maybe you have something with him, he has always been a team player.

Now drop the dang pucks and give us something REAL to argue about.

Speaking of which, where are The Excuses on Pomminville???? A provacative thought is that they view him as an "insurance like" Blue trading chip at the deadline. If we are in it, he stays, if not...SEE YA, cause we won't able to afford him!

And why sign him now? He might get hurt this year and handcuff us! Let's play it safe and wait a little while and see how the season goes...

They ought to hire Yogi Berra to replace Robi though cause this is "Deja Vu all over again!!!"...

[ElmaGolf]

Mac -
Sorry to lose credibility in your eyes. But Styx & Boston didn't sell all those "records" (back when they were actually records) because everyone thought they s*cked.
(Of course, seeing Clay Aiken's record sales doesn't help my case much).

****************
Excuses -

I get your point that if you have too many unreasonable "hopefully's", you're doomed. I just don't think that's the case with this year's "Plan."

Max, Stafford, Lydman, Tallinder, Miller, Thibault, Kotalik, Connolly, & Vanek (1/2 year) had sub-par performances last year and they still were just a handful of points out. It's not like every player peaked last year, but now has to get 10% better ("give 110%, 100% of the time") in order to get into the playoffs.

But enough .... the prediction horse is dead and gone - LET'S GET ON THE ICE!!!!!

********************
"Speaking of which, where are The Excuses on Pomminville????"

C'mon - I won't find your exact dates and quotes, but your summer has gone somthing like this:

"Helloooo, are the Sabres aware it's already July 2nd? I thought they were going to sign a gritty defenseman? Same old, same old"

"The Pens SIGNED Fleury, the Excuses are TALKING about signing Miller. Same old, same old"

"I thought the Sabres were "close" to signing Teppo. It's been over a week. Same old, same old"

If anything is "deja vu all over again," it's your impatience.

Where's Pomminville? He's about 320 days away from being an RFA. At least wait until training camp to overreact. Relax and enjoy the beautiful day!

[Buffalo Excuses]

"Helloooo, are the Sabres aware it's already July 2nd? I thought they were going to sign a gritty defenseman? Same old, same old"

I was right, groundhog day came and went. They didn't anything at the margin. Campbell for Rivet is a wash through rose colored glasses.

"The Pens SIGNED Fleury, the Excuses are TALKING about signing Miller. Same old, same old"

That was a refernce to dithering. The Excuses can't seem to do 2 things at the same time. Pens move, we lope.

"I thought the Sabres were "close" to signing Teppo. It's been over a week. Same old, same old"

Not sure I ever said this, but maybe I did cause I can see it as another dithering epsisode. I always viewed Teppo as a non event. I think he is a good buy, balanced risk for $1.1 Million. Don't see what the fanfare is. Let's not go down this path cause you will swear Teppo is George Washington in a hockey uniform all I will hear is you whistling "When you wish upon a star!"

If anything is "deja vu all over again," it's your impatience.

Dude, history is on my side. Frighteningly, so is the future. Even if they Sign Pommers, it is the same team. A playoff contender, not a cup contender.

Where's Pomminville? He's about 320 days away from being an RFA. At least wait until training camp to overreact. Relax and enjoy the beautiful day!

I hear ya here, but I thought I would rattle the cage a little bit. Actually, I think The Excuses are dragging this out for timing/marketing purposes. We are the best marketers in the game, just not the best hockey club. When all you are counting are profits and losses vs. wins and losses, it doesn't matter.

It's all part of our Rock & Roll (Hockey) Fantasy....

[ElmaGolf]

"It's all part of our Rock & Roll (Hockey) Fantasy...."

Hey, if you want to get me all '90's nostalgic for Mark Major, Jon Vecchiarelli, Nick Vitucci and the Buffalo Stampede, just mention Roller Hockey. Gotta love Championship Games at the Aud!

[jan]

we'll have to wait and see if the Sabres learned anything from last season. If they want to make the playoffs, each player needs to play well each shift, each period, during every game to get to the playoffs. Do they want it bad enough to put in the effort, grit and heart needed to make the playoffs. Time will tell.

[Heather B.]

"Objective observers say, uhhh, that aint gonna happen (afinigenov returning to form), and THAT certainly aint gonna happen (Connelly making it through season) , and there is no way in he!! that THAT is going to happen (signing someone at trade deadline)"

I don't think I mentioned Afinogenov and Connolly or a move at trade deadline. Those two playing well/staying healthy would be swell but the offense was just fine without them, outside of the power play which really missed Connolly. I don't really have a long list of "this needs to happens" - Tallinder needs to be better and Miller needs to be better. And considering that they've both been better in the past, I don't think it's a huge stretch to say they can both be better next season. And please. I SO did not mention a Stanley Cup. I do think they're a playoff team though.

I also don't think you can really say any journalist, try as he might, is objective. They have biases just like we do. They just don't fess up to them. Granted, the guy who wrote this probably isn't a Sabres fan which might make him a little more objective than say me... But it sure seems like he's relying a lot of last season's performances for a lot of teams.

And Mac, I'm not bent out of shape. Just enjoying a hockey discussion in this seemingly never ending off-season.

[Buffalo Excuses]

Heather,

My post was only intended at you for the rose colored glasses part. A few of us banetered back and forth about predictions so most of the rest was intended for them. I guess I should have said "insert your favorite Sabre" instead of Afinigenov returning to form.

Odd thing is that most (97%) seem to be content with this average team. "Just make the playoffs baby!" is our mantra. Sad.

Elma, How about "See Saw" by our local favorite Tallas! We seem to be on one as Excuses fans. Riding high now...

[greg]

$0.50 vodka drinks, wednesdays at Stage One. Those were some wild times. Think the Sabres were even more pitiful back then. Remember the days of lacombe, Creighton & Cyr. On the plus side I got 18 holes in today before the rain buckets came down. I'm ready for them to drop the puck.

[Heather B.]

Ah, gotcha, Excuses. Somehow I missed the whole prediction thing earlier. Which is just as well. I hate making prediction outside of "they'll make the playoffs." Too much stuff you can't account for.

"I guess I should have said "insert your favorite Sabre" instead of Afinigenov returning to form."

Okay, well, THAT certainly applied to me.

[Buffalo Bill]

Perfect. No pressure and high expectations to start the season. Just pure motivation to prove all the so called experts wrong. What more can you ask for. My prediction: We make the playoffs and finish second behind Montreal in the division.

[Amanda]

As far as players being better, I believe Max and Al Kotalik are both in contract years. That always helps their level of play. For both I think they will be UFA's too, so they're going to try to stack the UFA deck in their favor by having a good year this year. I don't think the Sabres will sign either one as a UFA, so let's enjoy their productivity while they're here.

[to67to09]

hmm, I like these perdictions better, found them at www.crashthecrease.com they had theirs out before THN..

[ebscer]

I think the west looks about right, but not at all in the east. Washington, Ottawa, and Tampa Bay are all too high, while Buffalo is way to low...

[Rick]

How can these bird brains rank Philly and Ottawa so high? what a joke. The Sabres will eat them for breakfast. Montreal's collapse to Philly in the playoffs showed that they are not that good after all. Their young goalie will do better but Buffalo will bounce back and should win the division in my opinion.

[Dave]

I get a kick out of prediction lists like this one. Carolina ahead of Buffalo? Please. Ottawa and Washington as high as they are? Yeah, ok. This list looks like it was assembled by a football broadcaster at ESPN.

[Adam]

These look about right to me. It's not so much that the Sabres are worse, but they aren't particularly better... Carolina and Tampa are...

I think you could certainly leapfrog Boston, and possibly NJ, but that Brodeur factor is tight... I think the Sabres will finish ahead of Tampa, despite their improvement, but I'm not sure that'll be enough

[Chad]

I think the whole "what have they done to pass _____" logic is very flawed. What did Montreal do last summer to go from 11th to 1st? They did nothing and made no changes of not yet jumped ten teams. It's a new season with at least some new players on every team. Last year is next to irrelevant at this point.

[Rick]

What a joke. Buffalo never gets any respect anyway. They will finish way higher than this and will make the playoffs. Ottawa has much to worry about. And Im not sold on Philly either. This could be the longest year the Devils have had in over a decade. I say Vanek scores 40 minimum and Buffalo and Montreal slug it out for the division. And where do they think the Rangers are going? Sabres in the top 4 for sure.

[Dee]

I believe the Sabres will be in the top four. Vanek and Max will have outstanding seasons, We need these two players to have a break out season. If they don't, Trade them next year for Gaborik.
No, Just joking. However, I believe in this team and any team coached by Lindy Ruff.

[Chad]

If they don't sign Sundin, the Rangers will be this year's big disappointment in the Eastern Conference. Call it a hunch.

Good to see that organization learned absolutely nothing from their pre-lockout failures. Rather than re-signing the heart and soul of the team (Avery) and their best player/top scorer (Jagr), they instead spend $40 mil on Wade Redden, a guy whose offensive numbers (his best skill) have steadily declined over the last two seasons. NY’s record with Avery in the lineup since he was acquired: 50-20-16. Without Avery: 9-13-3. Pretty big difference. I hate the guy, but you can’t argue his importance to that team. Markus Naslund won’t make up for Jagr’s numbers and this is a team already lacking offense and playmaking ability (24th in goals). And $5 mil/year on Roszival? While letting a better defenseman (Fedor Tyutin), who they could have had for just over half the cost, go to Columbus? Save for a few players like Dubinsky, Dawes and Staal, this team is once again turning into a bunch of highly paid mercenaries with no chemistry. At least Regier tries to learn from his mistakes. Can't say the same for Glen Sather.

Lundqvist will save their behinds quite a bit, but I won’t be surprised when this team is scrambling for a playoff spot in the last 5 games of the season. Enjoy Dmitri Kalinin.

[Buffalo Excuses]

Chad,

I agree with you for the most part. But here's the rub....

You ask any Excuses fan who will win the cup first and by a ratio of AT LEAST 5:1 they will say The Rangers. The others are dilusional. That is a sad fact.

[ElmaGolf]

"That is a sad fact."

I refer you back to my previous comments that "facts" don't work like that. You can't make Papal decrees of reality anymore.

In the last 10 years, Sabres have made 4 ECFs - Rangers haven't made it out of the 2nd round. And why exactly would fans be "delusional" to believe the Sabres may win a Cup before the Blueshirts? Especially after you agreed that the Rangers seem to be falling back to the old "overpriced, no chemistry stars" template that got them 7 straight years of missing the playoffs.

I've cast my vote - go find 4 friends to keep up your supposed 5:1 ratio.

[greg]

I agree with Elma. Now you are going to need to find 8 people!

How's the golf been going Elma?

[Michael Jones]

I think Buffalo is going to end up at 6th in the east. Who did we lose? I know Cambell is gone but Rivet is just as good at 3million lessthan Cambell wanted. If Max comes to play this year, And Tim is healthy enough to trade>>> yes trade... we all love him but we need someone who has his skills that can take a hit... we will be better than last year. We have a great 2nd golie nowand some of the best up and coming players in the NHL.

[Buffalo Excuses]

Elma,

WOW! Are you kidding me? 4 ECFs!?! A whole 4 in 10 years????? Wow....That's 40%! Now, why did you ONLY go back 10 years? Hmmmm....

And....I'm sorry, I thought I was talking about Stanley Cups. You know, CHAMPIONSHIPS??? I know, we have gotten so close in our history SO MANY times that you confused it.

But let me clear things up for you...

While I could only find 4 Stanley Cups in a 10 second scan of their history, that is still 4 more than The Excuses.

And if you want to compare them against The Excuses History, they still have 1 more.

Now I would do the math for you, but a FACT is that division by ZERO is undefined.

4 ECFs! Sounds an awful lot like 4 Excuses!

[ElmaGolf]

Exvuses - you know, I actually wrote your response down before you even posted it, that's how predictable you are.
*****************
"Now, why did you ONLY go back 10 years? Hmmmm...."

Well, because it's idiotic to think that Mike Keenan & Neil Smith (Coach & GM in 1994) have any bearing or influence on the Rangers chances of winning the Cup.

10 years roughly correlates to the presence of Lindy & Darcy, and is roughly the same tenure as GM Glen Sather in New York. Considering these people are the ones with any influence on the current teams - I guess you have your answer.

(FYI - the object of using rhetorical questions to cement your point is that there's not supposed to be a good answer.)

******************
"You know, CHAMPIONSHIPS??? I know, we have gotten so close in our history SO MANY times that you confused it. "

Yeah, I'm sorry, Excuses, I had this silly understanding that getting to the Final Four repeatedly may actually improve your chances of closing the deal. I suppose if you were a Golfer, you'd say it was meaningless to be in the final pairing consistently.

By your logic, Steve Jones was in a much better position to win the PGA than Sergio Garcia based on his triumph at Oakland Hills in 1996. Sergio may not have closed the deal, but I'm willing to bet he's closer than Steve Jones.

******************
"4 Stanley Cups in a 10 second scan of their history, that is still 4 more than The Excuses."

Again, see my discussion above regarding what 1994 has to do with "who will win the Cup from here." Trying to consider older Cups won in a "6 team, pre-free agency NHL" renders your point even more meaningless.

However, I'll humor your 5 year Old Logic and oversimplification (we've come full circle to when we first met).

By your logic, the Toronto Maple Leafs should be one of the next to Win the Cup, with their 13 Cups.

How did Edmonton look going into last season, with their 5 Stanley Cups? (BTW - that's what an effective rhetorical question looks like).

By your standards, the Islanders must be one of the Top 5 positioned teams, based on their 1980s runs.

You may as well complete the lunacy and tell me the Montreal Maroons are in better shape than the Sabres.

**************

Go ahead - hold your thesis that a franchise quickly reverting to its wildly unsuccessful model of "expensive stars with no role support" is better positioned than a very young core of Sabres, simply because Mike Kennan & Neil Smith once strung things together in the mid-90s (when Thomas Vanek was 10 years old).

************************
I'll spare you the Mathematical Regression Analysis, but the Correlation between Cups won 15 years ago under a completely different management team and a team's current performance is pretty weak.

Any other oversimplifications for me to debunk tonight?

Bueller....

Bueller.....

[Buffalo Excuses]

Elma the windbag,

The only thing predictable able you is the length of your posts. Must be nice not to have any friends and have all that time to go on, and on, and on...You're like the energizer bunny with a pocket protector.

Similar to Chuckie Chad though, your posts are more about self grandizement than thoughtful commentary.

Sounds like I really fired you up, huh Slim? Take a breath dough boy. From the sound of your anticipation, you probably were so excited that you had to wipe the sweat that dribbled off your third chin onto the key board. Make sure you don't miss the twinkie crumbs.

Rather than rehash championship history (BTW, The Excuses have none) I will let the future deal with both of us.

Unfortunately for both of us fans (with only one being compensated for being so), THE FACTS are this team is AVERAGE. I don't like it any more than most, but am not so weak kneed as to rah, rah, rah it off. Then again, your weak kneedness comes more from slugging the extra 350 lbs you have on me. Must be tough to hit the ball over that expanse you call a "tummy". But when you do, I am sure it sails nicely for you.

So "put off" pocket protector. Sucking down hotdogs and swilling beer at the turn does not make you a good golfer.

When objectors stop debating you, it isn't becuase they lost, it's because they're fearful of the projectiles coming through the stenchy gaps of your yellowed teeth.

I know, you predicted this response too, didn't you? You're great at predicting history. Oh, and I predicted yours too! See how easy that is! I didn't write mine down though cause my pencil tip broke and I'm fresh out of sharpners. Seems there's a CPA convention in town and they bought them all up, just in case they need 'em....

[ElmaGolf]

"Sounds like I really fired you up, huh Slim?"

Sure did - you fired me up to the point that I used logic to address your points.

On the other hand, calmness permeated your comments. Let's see:

"Must be nice not to have any friends" - Thanks for your concern - I do OK.

"pocket protector" - very original, but I usually wear golf shirts to work.

"sweat that dribbled off your third chin" - I have Air-Conditioning - no sweat.

"slugging the extra 350 lbs you have on me" - you weigh negative 150 pounds?

"Sucking down hotdogs and swilling beer at the turn does not make you a good golfer." - Darn, Kobiyashi must be disappointed.

"stenchy gaps of your yellowed teeth" - Wow! Very descriptive!

"my pencil tip broke and I'm fresh out of sharpners. Seems there's a CPA convention in town and they bought them all up" - I invested heavily in mechanical pencil technology to avoid such a calamity. Besides, the convention's usually in Orlando or DC.

You could have simply left it at "I will let the future deal with both of us" but I guess you wanted your "insult creativity" practice.

(BTW, trying to assert some level of superiority while making "fat" insults is pretty shallow - even for a blog. But I suppose you were trying to show me the "thoughful commentary" you felt was missing from my self-AGgrandizement.)

[Buffalo Excuses]

Lessons to a five year old:

Interestingly enough, you accuse me of resorting to personal insults, neglecting the fact that you insulted me. Ahhh, but in politics, that’s not deception (out and out lying) that is what is known as SPIN…..continuing my growing belief that you two clowns are holdovers from a lost fantasy of working for the “Guvnah”.

And yes, I did drop down to sophomoric insulting humor (Greg baited, I knowingly obliged) to make my point. But I also did so as a signaling device. Thanks for ignoring. Chad took the lesson, and you probably needled him the next morning at the marketing table for getting schooled. Given this, you were too “smart” to take the hint.

But, wait? Did I anticipate YOUR response???? If so, let me wax for a few minutes about guys like you and me (winners and losers). Let’s see if you can follow along….You seem pretty good at history….

THIS IS NO LIE: I have a 5 year old son. TONIGHT, I came home tonight late from a meeting and missed dinner. Starved, I go into the fridge and even in my neighborhood, I find leftovers…Grilled Chicken. So I proceed to make chicken salad. Problem is, there is only enough for one sandwich. I am starving and my 5 year old is curious and always willing to participate. Normally, I have no problems, actually we usually chat while we share my meal. But this time…well, the kids got everything and like I said, I am starving. Now keep in mind that this is not your average chicken salad sandwich….I like fresh tomatoes and banana peppers on it. So…I try to explain this to my 5 year old, but he insists, he will like it….so….as a test, I ask him to sample the banana pepper. Now while it seems a tad mean, and a bit comical, I know my 5 year old learned more about perception and reality than he did about the fact that he did not like banana peppers. If not, well there’s time to learn. After all, he’s 5.

Now Elma, you are considerably older than 5 and, yes, you did insult me as using 5 year old logic. While I shake my head at the irony, fortune usually favors the foolish (ME!). So let me TRY to translate the lesson to you:

You see, it’s all in your perspective…reality vs. perception…between both is what is called arbitrage. Fortunes are won and lost in the difference. Now I know you can define arbitrage, and you can ALWAYS and ARROGANTLY inform everyone else who will listen to you when it happens. But Elma…guys like you only see its wake. Guys like me, well…we anticipate it.

No, I am not a gambler making countless when The Excuses fold consistently. But the same can be seen, from afar or in the wake, in business. Bean counters are good at explaining what happened. Guys like you are spot on pointing it out AFTER it happens. There’s other folks who see it BEFORE it happens. Some act on it, others listen to the risks articulated by their accountants.

Now where’s the ironic translation??? You sell “hope”, I see the “Audacity of Hoopla”. Yes, you can make money when everyone else loses. No, there won’t be money made or lost, just pride. And yes, I am willing to concede I am at risk here. But I go by instinct as I know BS when I see it. Sometimes I’m wrong, but more often than not, I’m right.

For summary, I know I am not always right and some will call me foolish if they only look at one event. If I lose this event, what did I really lose? You may win this event, but what did you really win? Since there was no moey at risk, I would LOVE to be wrong here, cause sooner or later, I will be. Oh, and when I am wrong, the LAST thing you will hear from me is an EXCUSE. For me, its a lesson.

I know you are probably confused as, after all, you are 40, not 5. My kid got it, maybe he can traslate for you.

But let me...it comes back to what’s ventured vs. gained. Remember our risk discussion relative to winners and losers? Yeah, I know, I lost you at arbitrage. I had you at goodbye. It is a shame to say I have to tell you that goodbye translates to my wake, but you were SO KIND to transate for me...

Later wakeboy.

[Chad]

What In God's Name Are You Talking About (see, I can title my posts, too)

Excuses, each time it seems like you're coming around and willing to engage in useful dialogue, you revert to your name-calling and petty insults. And each time, you essentially say "well you started it." Um, okay? C'mon, you're better than that. I can't speak for Elma, but I certainly don't mind that you have a differing viewpoint. It would be pretty mundane in here if everyone agreed about everything.

Now, in terms of your argument with Elma, I'm not sure why you're getting upset. Here's the argument as I read it (I'm sure you'll tell me that I missed something, but this is it, generally):

-We agreed that it seems like the Rangers are reverting to their pre-lockout ways of spending money without regard to chemistry.

-You declared that, in spite of this fact, Buffalo fans still think the Rangers will win a Cup before Buffalo by a 5:1 ratio and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. Thus, according to you, there are two categories of people: people who agree with you and people who are delusional.

-Elma disputed your opinion, arguing that he doesn't think Sabres fans would agree with you, at least in your hypothesized ratio, because the Rangers have not been close to winning anything in the last 13 years and Glen Sather doesn't seem to know what he is doing. He was only referencing the past performance of the Rangers, and their recent reversion to similar practices, to show that people wouldn't necessarily agree with what you said.

-You then, somewhat predictably, turned the argument into a "let's compare pasts of ______ and Buffalo." This is a favorite trick of The Detractors: when someone challenges one of your decrees (that usually can't be proven one way or another) that you seek to pass off as Truth, seek shelter in the comfort of the old reliable "what has Buffalo ever won in the past, why do you think they can possibly win the future?"

-Elma then called you on this change of course.

-You reverted to your personal insults and your "if you don't think this team is average, you must be paid by the Sabres" line.

I'm sure this will cause me to be called an "ambulance chaser" (though I have never nor will I ever deal with a car accident/personal injury case) or one of the few lawyer stereotypes you haven't yet tossed at me. All I'm saying is that you seem to know enough to engage other people without insulting them personally, yet you've just refused to do so.

And, by the way, I love how you tell me that I got "schooled" in our earlier barbing. What? You ripped off a plot line from Desperate Housewives(Gardener sleeps with busy, successful guy's wife) when trying to rip my profession. Don't worry, I won't give you up to the ABC copyright guys. Besides, I hate that show.

It's plain to me, at this point, that, to you, everything is about who wins or who loses and you take solace in calling other people "losers" and annointing yourself as the "winner" (you've done so about 8 times, already).

Now, let ME teach you a lesson and I won't even wrap it around some odd parent/child/vegetable metaphor that only seems to half-follow the subsequent analysis (yeah, I know, it was too deep for me, the gardener is smarter than the lawyer, yada yada yada): life is more than a Winner/Loser Dichotomy and, secondly, you're not right because you say you are or even that you believe you are. That's just not how life works. Time will tell who was right about this year. I can rest comfortable in that assurance. Maybe you should do the same rather than personally attacking everyone on this board who disagrees with you.

I now anticipate many more personal attacks. How about that for foresight. Go prove me right.

[Buffalo Excuses]

Chad,

....

Excuses.

[Chad]

Excuses,

An ellipsis used correctly only has three periods. For example...

Maybe if Darcy and Larry let Elma and I away from the Marketing Table for a little while, we could give you a dual vocab/punctuation lesson. Then again, the English language is only for "losers" like CPA's and JD's.

You're obviously pretty riled up. It can't be long before you officially become That Guy on the Blog and start to physically threaten us.

[greg]

Gentlemen

It seems as though your usual banter has gone to the extreme. I Love It! You guys are on a roll. Keep up the good work.

Remember the childhood friend of yours that saw a hornets nest, and decided to poke it with a stick, just for the fun of it.

That was me!!!

[Buffalo Excuses]

ChElma the tone deaf, two headed monster,

When I say Self grandizement, most on this board think, yeah I know what that means and it's funny cause I'm pretty sure it means some arrogant, self important idiot out to make his self appear, well, important. When you retort with Self AGgrandizement, the viewing audience says, "WTF is the difference?" Then they think, OMG, what an awesome example of self GRandizement!!!!!

I now think you guys are the same, cause when rolling in flames, the only thing you have as a comeback is....PUNCTUATION and SPELLING.

Go ahead, nerdboy(s). It's now FACTUAL that you have no friends and had to invent an alter ego. Weird, but predictable thing is that you screwed that up too. Alter egos are meant to be, well, different. In your world, they have to parrot everything you say.

Let's see, my guess is Elma was the original who CONSTANTLY argued with everyone. When people stopped paying attention to him, he invented someone who would (much like a 5 year old). But instead of inventing someone to argue with, Elma invented someone who agrees with everything he says. How narcissistic (go ahead a spell check Dork Boy). Thinking of an occupation for this new "virtual superhero" all that numbers could come up with was the ever exciting field of law. While most of us think it's BORING...hey, anything is exciting compared to accounting!

BTW, Walmart has wakeboards on sale....

[Buffalo Excuses]

Oh, and for the record, I don't know what an ellipsis is, nor do I care.

Now go ahead and diagram the sentence for us teacher and tell everyone how dumb I am that I couldn't figure it out from the syntax......

You are SO lame.

[ElmaGolf]

Chad,

Thanks for summarizing - I thought I missed something there. I think it's odd that this started by everyone agreeing the Rangers are heading south, and still ended up in a huge debate.

I thought we were having a decent debate on the Rangers vs. Sabres chances, and then all h'ell broke loose.

Excuses -
I wasn't trying to personally insult you with the "Five Year Old Logic" thing - it's a permeating reference back to our past squabbles (just like you always calling me a Sabres Employee). I didn't realize it pushed a button that hard.

I use the term to challenge premises of your arguments that seem too oversimplified, such as:

"The Rangers Won More Cups than the Sabres - so they're more likely to win the next one" - Explaining to a Five Year Old - that would make sense. But adults know there's much more to consider.

I know you're more intelligent than that - which makes it all more confusing to me when you try to present those statements as "Self-Evident Truths."

I know you're smart enough to realize that the fact that No Players, Coaches or Management remain from the 1994 Rangers makes it a meaningless analysis.

Perhaps you say those things just to be contrary or to get a rise. If so, I'll oblige with a response - if only to entertain Greg.

But if you're upset that Chad & I always seem to have an answer or reason for supporting our positions (also referred to as "Excuses" by you), you have to ask yourself why you seem to run out of reasons in the course of the debate and have to resort to personal insults and professional stereotypes (or "signaling devices" as you say).

It's not that we think our positions are "FACTS" or can't be disagreed with, we just give our analysis to show you why we think we're not as "Self-Evidently Wrong" as you seem to think or to offer an alternative viewpoint to your "Self-Proclaimed Facts."

Sincerely,
Wakeboy